Topic:  Guest Book Post regarding Festival Flea Market Show "Judging"

Name: Phinfan
Location: South Florida
Topic: Festival Flea Market Show
Date: 04/30/2007


Just Wondering what kind of judging criteria went into this show? Was it based on cleanliness? Mods? etc? Did all the cars even get judged...the show had a great turnout...but the judgeing left many contestants with a sour feeling...I knwo of several cars in attendance that have receieved best in show or 1st place awards in their classes yet were beaten by cars that were clearly inferior at any points based judged event. We were warned before attending how bad the judging was a this show...and I guess we were told correctly. Also Ford Mustang Class...i counted upwards of 20 mustangs? No late model mopar class? Great show...just womdering what kind of judging actually took place.


(initial reply below posted by: Scott / Moderator)

Dear Phinfan,  Your questions regarding judging are valid and worthy of a response, however I originally elected to not post your comments on the "guest book" forum.  The only reason I chose to not post this is that I didn't want to open the "flood gates" for complaints every time someone feels they've either been cheated, or that the judging at a car show was unfair.  I did however, pass along your email to the appropriate persons who would have any control over this matter.

It is my understanding that the judging was done by other "car people", so those would be the people that you would have to impress.  This was not a "points" show, but I do not know what particular criteria was used by the individual judges.  With over 500 cars, you do realize that judging a car show of this size is not going to be without flaws, and it certainly won't always please everyone.  It is even possible the car you mention could have been missed, but not likely.  There were SO many nice cars there, that a lot of cars that would normally win trophies, did not.  There just simply weren't enough trophies for all the qualified show cars to go around.  But I can also tell you that someone ALWAYS complains at EVERY show regarding judging!  It ALWAYS happens. 

I appreciate your effort to discuss the issue, but I don't want to turn my web site into a battle ground for everyone who feels cheated at a show, or has complaints.

As I said though, I appreciate your concerns and I have forwarded your comments to the people who have control over the judging, which I do not...and wish to remain neutral.  I hope you understand.

Thank you for your time and understanding, and for visiting the web site. 

Sincerely,  Scott

UPDATE:  I decided the back and forth dialog that continues below may actually be beneficial to this matter, and have decided to post this dialog for informational purposes.  But as I stated, the purpose of this forum in not to vent complaints about every show by those who feel somehow cheated.  The reply below should answer most of the questions regarding these issues.

(reply below posted by: Russ Gagliano)

Dear Phinfan,

I don't know who you are, but I will tell you who I am, Russ Gagliano.......I put on the Festival Flea Market Car Show this past Sunday. I have just been forwarded your "guest book post" by "Scott" the DJ. I will try to answer your questions as best as I can.........

First of all I would like to thank you for attending the show..........

 And now your questions (and comments):

What kind of judging criteria went into the show? 
The judging was based on the best car that was in that particular class of cars that were in attendance.

Did all the cars even get judged?
Yes ! They did....... except for the cars that came in after the 300 registration count, which were too late to find and judge. No one would ever guess that the count would reach 556 cars. We only had enough trophies for the expected turnout.

The judging left many contestants with a sour feeling!
Out of 556 cars at the are the only one who was not satisfied with the judging.

I know of several cars in attendance that have received Best in Show or 1st place awards in their classes, yet were beaten by cars that were clearly inferior at any points based judged event.
This show was not a points based judged event.......and  who was qualified to make that decision ? Was it at an all Mustang show with specific classes and judging standards? Certainly not at a show with 556 different year, make and models of cars.

We were warned before attending how bad the judging was at this show ! 
Then why did you attend ? Did you come to the show just for the trophy ? What about the other 20 Mustangs that you said were in attendance ? Are they all "Best of Show" Mustangs like yours...........why haven't we heard from them ?

No Ford Mustang Class !
Most of the clubs called me and told me how many cars they were bringing.............on that basis I ordered more compensate for the amount of cars that would be there. The Corvettes called......I had 15 trophies..........the Imports called........I had trophies for them.......How could anyone know that there would be "20" Mustangs at the show !!!

No Late Model Mopar Class !
Are you the spokes person for the Mopars now ? I haven't heard from them complaining..............

Twice in your post you said the show was good.........and I thank you for that. There is no way that anyone could have known that this show was going to be so large, and in effect there was not enough trophies for the amount of cars that were in attendance.

 I do hope that you and your Mustang was one of the pre 350 cars that enjoyed:     

  • Your free $15.00 gas card
  • Your free breakfast
  • Your free lunch
  • Your free festival dollars to spend
  • Your free hat
  • Your free goody bag

I did try to put on a good show for you..............

Just wondering what kind of judging took place ?

As best as we could with the conditions we had to work with..........there were 25 competent judges at the show, they took time out from having fun, on a volunteer basis to help judge the cars. I feel they did a terrific job, and I commend them highly. Everybody likes the judges when they win, but when they lose...........they hate them.

 As for my qualifications : I eliminate myself from Judging at the show, I feel as the promoter of the show, and knowing most of the owners and their cars, as well as having restored most of them, it would be a conflict of interest. Although ........I am highly qualified in this area. I am a Master Senior Judge with the Antique Automobile Club of America as well as the Classic Car Club of America and many of the other national clubs. I have been restoring cars for the last 40 years and have won many national awards for my vehicles as well as my customers.

Remember Phinfan.......................this is supposed to be's the greatest hobby in the world !!! with the greatest people in the world.............Car People !!!

I apologize for the length of my response to you, but I feel that since you took the time out to voice your concerns, it should have an equal reply. I do hope I have answered your questions.........

Hope to see you at the next show !

Russ Gagliano
Show Chairman, Festival Flea Market Mall Spring Car Show


(reply below posted by: Phinfan)

I actually did not have a car in the show..however I know many of the people that did...Mustang people, Truck People, Mopar People, Vette people etc etc...I happen to know more of the Mopar and Ford that I know only some of the cars were judged I can pass that along...that makes much more sense...there was alot of chatter on several boards I frequent regarding how the judging took place..and more than one person mentioned to me that the judges all won awards at the last show...I didnt show my car...and no I dont show up for a trophy at any show I attend...but I also like to see the best car win and walking around the show and then seeing some of the winners, I could clearly see that in many cases there were superior cars in the same classes.. When I see a well put together car and then see other cars in the same class win above them it just seems strange...well it was obvious that was not the case. I have judged in many Ford and Mopar events I know what a show quality car is. I was unaware by just walking through which cars were in the first 300 and which were in teh show and which were not..however I do know several people that were in the 400-500# range that were told they were paying their 10 to be in teh "judged" i will pass along the fact that it was not the is good to know that now. When you put blood sweat and tears into your exect teh decency of being judged whether you win or not...and if you are not judged,...the decency to know that fact..and if you are jusged and dont win the reasons why another car is superior so you can work and make your ride better. Thats how the shows I ahve been  invloved with work.
As far as my mustang class seemed odd to have just a catch all latemodel ford class...and then a zillion vette classes..that is all.  Just a suggestion for the future...if you build it they will come...and maybe a mustang and latemodel class will bring out even more fords and far as Mopar...I think w the resurgance of Trucks, Hemi cars etc again that would bring out another group of cars. Just some have answered my questions and alot of other people's as well..most just wont speak i decided to ask. The show had a great turnout and was a fun time w fellowship w car people...just wasnt sure how some of it worked that was all..thanks

(final reply below posted by Russ Gagliano)

Everything you said was absolutely true.........the reason we had so many Corvette classes is that they asked for them before they came to the show.........we had over 75 Corvettes and naturally not that many Fords that could be in the same class...........the $10.00 people that came in late were told that they would be exhibition which they all agreed ! Could you imagine if you came early...........and they gave a trophy to a guy that comes in a hour before the show ends..............pure havoc.

Glad you were so a are true South Florida Car Nut .................

Take Care !

Russ G